Fr. Bob Dowd, CSC: Education, Bridged.

0:00:09.8 Audrey Scott: Welcome to this modern education podcast that explores learning from the everyday exchange of thoughts and ideas to the theories and practices behind entire systems. Think education is cool. So do we. So we pair two conversations, learn about our guests, then learn from our guests, share your takeaways and come back for more. You're listening to Think. Pair. Share. With me Audrey Scott. Here I am with Fr. Bob Dowd. I'm blessed to be talking with him a second time.

 

0:00:46.1 Fr. Bob Dowd: Thank you. It's great to be with you.

 

0:00:48.4 AS: Fr. Bob So what's new with you?

 

0:00:50.8 FD: Not much. No. Actually, quite a bit.

 

0:00:54.1 AS: We're lucky enough to have you back for a very special in studio visit because a funny thing happened on the way to making this podcast. In mid October last year, Fr. Jenkins, who we are so grateful to for his remarkable leadership, announced of course, that he was stepping down as president of Notre Dame at the end of the 2023-2024 academic year. Then in November, you and I sat down and spoke here for this Think. Pair. Share. Podcast. And at the time, your role as Vice President and Associate Provost for Interdisciplinary initiatives, not too easy to say, connected you directly with us here at the Institute for Educational Initiatives. And we were excited to get to know you better. And then maybe just a few weeks later, in early December, before we were even able to share this episode. You see where I'm going with this? You were elected the 18th President of the University of Notre Dame du Lac. So you understand we would have been extremely remiss not to have you back on the program to bridge that series of very important events for our listeners and most importantly, offer our heartfelt congratulations to you and to Notre Dame. We are extremely blessed to have you as the President Elect.

 

0:02:01.6 FD: Well, thank you. I'm blessed and grateful, so thank you very, very much.

 

0:02:05.9 AS: Yes, well, you're welcome.

 

0:02:07.2 FD: Yeah, I'm certainly honored and humbled to have been elected Notre Dame's next president. And I really look forward to serving the Notre Dame community in a new way in that capacity.

 

0:02:18.2 AS: May I ask how you got the news? Were you asked if you'd like to take on the new role? Or was it like, hey, Fr. Bob, guess what you're doing next year and the foreseeable future?

 

0:02:30.2 FD: Yeah, well, I knew it was in the realm of possibilities, but I must say that I was not expecting it. I was surprised, as surprised as anybody else, and really humbled and honored by board's decision. And so I'm really looking forward to giving my all to this role. I think it's important to say that I am especially Grateful for Fr. John and his leadership. He's a model of courage and faithfulness and humility. And there's so much to learn from him. And I'm glad he's going to be around. After taking a bit of a sabbatical, a well deserved sabbatical, he'll get away from Notre Dame for a little while, but I know he plans to come back, and it will be great to have him around. So I'm just so grateful for his example and for his leadership. Notre Dame is so well positioned in so many ways, thanks to his courageous leadership, working together closely with others. I kind of feel like, for me, it's just important not to mess it up.

 

0:03:32.8 AS: Not a chance.

 

0:03:33.6 FD: And I'm so grateful for the team that we have, the team that Fr. John has put in place, people who are extremely competent and capable, as well as passionate and committed to Notre Dame and its mission. So I feel very, very grateful to be working with such a fine group of people.

 

0:03:53.0 AS: We are so encouraged to know that you feel that way, and we're excited to support you in any way possible.

 

0:03:58.3 FD: Thank you very much.

 

0:03:58.9 AS: Even know that you have the support. Of all of us.

 

0:04:01.3 FD: Thank you. Thank you. Well, the work of the Institute for Educational Initiatives is so incredibly important. I feel so privileged to have gotten to know the work of the Institute over the last few years. And so I'm just so grateful for your work here at the Institute for Educational Initiatives, all that you do for children in school, for teachers and leaders of schools. Everything that you do to support Catholic education is so appreciated, and it's so central to Notre Dame's mission as a Catholic university. So thank you. Thanks to everyone at the Institute for Educational Initiatives.

 

0:04:38.3 AS: On behalf of the Institute, I would like to thank you.

 

0:04:41.1 FD: Thank you.

 

0:04:41.8 AS: I bet they would say the same. So that was very kind of you. And we just were excited about the mission here, but also how to support Notre Dame's mission overall. So I'm happy to be partners in that.

 

0:04:51.2 FD: Thanks. Thank you.

 

0:04:52.8 AS: So after you got the news that you were going when you woke up the next day, were you able to process it at all, sort of this new path laid out in front of you? Or can you remember maybe a first thought you had when you woke up the next day?

 

0:05:07.1 FD: Yeah. Well, as soon as I found out, I did take a walk. I went to the cemetery. I went to two cemeteries. I went to Cedar Grove Cemetery and visited the grave of my dad, who was a 1956 Notre Dame grad. And then I walked to the Holy Cross Cemetery and I visited the grave site of Fr. Ted Hesburgh and Fr. Richard Warner, who were very important people in my life, and just kind of prayed there. I must say, I was a bit in shock, but I made early on, within maybe a half hour of receiving the news, I made a pilgrimage to those cemeteries and to those grave sites.

 

0:05:46.6 AS: That speaks so much to your heart. The listeners will hear later that your family's very important to you, and so that's a beautiful way to go and talk to your dad. I appreciate that very much. And then Fr. Hesburgh, of course, and Fr. Warner. Fantastic people all the way around. Well, thank you for sharing that.

 

0:06:02.1 FD: Thanks for asking.

 

0:06:03.7 AS: As you know, since its founding, Notre Dame has been led by a priest president from the Congregation of Holy Cross. We've only had three presidents, really, in the last 70 years, each exceptional in their own right. Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Molloy, and Fr. Hesburgh. How important is the priest president role in continuing Notre Dame's rich traditions as well as leading us passionately into the future?

 

0:06:25.6 FD: And that's a really interesting question. It's a great question. I'd say that Fr. Hesper, Fr. Malloy, and Fr. Jenkins, I think all of them were people of prayer and the priest presidents who were presidents before them. And of course lay people are people of prayer, too, and sometimes lay people are better people of prayer than we priests. But I do think that, I think. As priests, they were people who gave their all and who were dedicated 24/7 to serving as president of the university. And I think their religious life, their identity as religious of Holy Cross and as priests, allowed them to do that and to continue on the charism of the Congregation of Holy Cross at Notre Dame in a special way. And so my hope is to continue doing so and to build on their legacy and the legacy of all those who preceded them.

 

0:07:26.1 AS: You've been described as a man of great faith, with intellectual curiosity and generosity of spirit. I think those are apt. If you accept that, how will those characteristics serve you going forward and many other of your strengths?

 

0:07:38.9 FD: Sure, yeah. I mean, besides having had the opportunity to serve at the university in a variety of ways, that that does provide me with a sense of perspective on the life of the university. And so, even though I have a lot more to learn, I do think that my experience over the last couple of decades here at Notre Dame has been extremely valuable and will help me to serve as president. But I think perhaps even more importantly is prayer. I think that if I'm going to serve effectively, as president, I do think I need to be a person of prayer. I do think it's important for me to stop and to reflect each day.

 

0:08:16.3 FD: On all that we have to be grateful for here at Notre Dame and to reflect on some of the challenges that we face and to pray for God's help to address those challenges and to continue to serve everyone who makes up the Notre Dame community to the best of my ability. I do think that it will be important for me to do my best to be a person of prayer. I think that will help me to be a better president. And the temptation is, when one gets very busy, to drift a bit from prayer. It's difficult to make time for prayer. And ironically, that's when we really need prayer the most.

 

0:08:49.5 AS: When you get so busy, then you might not have those moments of quiet, but you could see right from the moment you found out, your instinct was to sort of protect that maybe and have those moments. We talked about so many great things and I so enjoyed our conversation. Just one question that I know we wanted to talk about research. The university has four foundational and enduring goals. Catholic character, undergraduate education and formation, graduate education, and then their interconnectedness with research and scholarship. Why is that element so critical to Notre Dame?

 

0:09:24.5 FD: Well, research and scholarship is central to the life of the university, just as teaching is. You know, I think that research is how we expand knowledge. It's how we deepen understanding of the world around us. It's how we come to know the truth. And hopefully our research leads to deeper insights to it helps us to innovate and it helps us to have an impact, a positive impact on the world around us. So research is really central to Notre Dame's mission as a great Catholic research university. I'd say like 20 years ago or so, some people were concerned that Notre Dame's emphasis on becoming a better research university would be at the expense of our undergraduate education. And I understand that there could be a tension there, but I think that's a false dichotomy by and large.

 

0:10:17.9 FD: If we are a first rate research institution and we have first rate researchers in the classroom teaching our undergraduate students, then our undergraduate students are going to benefit greatly because they're going to have teachers who are at the top of their game, who are aware of the latest research on various important questions, and the students themselves, the undergraduate students, are going to benefit. So it's incredibly important for Notre Dame moving forward to continue to strive to be an outstanding research institution. I think it's incredibly important that we do more and more and better multidisciplinary work across our colleges and schools, our centers and institutes. In fact, they are intended to bring people together across disciplines. And I think we can elevate the extent to which we're doing excellent multidisciplinary research in ways that also strengthen our academic departments. I think there's another tension that sometimes people talk about that the emphasis on multidisciplinary research is going to weaken our academic departments. I do not think that needs to be the case. In fact, we need to work to make sure that it is not the case that in fact, the work we're doing across colleges and schools, institutes and centers across disciplines is actually going to strengthen our academic departments.

 

0:11:37.6 FD: I envision a Notre Dame where faculty and students are grounded in disciplines but not bounded by disciplines, where more and more faculty and students are working together across disciplines to address the really important challenges that we face in our world.

 

0:11:55.0 AS: That's such a hopeful view forward, and I think that that's part and parcel of everything I've been able to enjoy from you so far. And that's why I'm so excited for the future for Notre Dame with you as the president. So we look forward to that. But thank you again so much for joining us. And listeners, please don't forget to listen to the rest of the original podcast that follows right after this. But thank you again, Fr. Bob, so much.

 

0:12:18.5 FD: Thank you. Thank you, Audrey. Really appreciate it.

 

0:12:28.3 AS: Hi, Fr. Bob.

 

0:12:29.0 FD: Well, yes, hello there. Hey, Audrey.

 

0:12:31.5 AS: Good to see you.

 

0:12:32.5 FD: Good to see you.

 

0:12:33.6 AS: How are you?

 

0:12:34.8 FD: Great, great, thank you, Audrey. Great to be with you.

 

0:12:37.7 AS: Hey, let's talk about this decently, like, 60° November weather here in South Florida.

 

0:12:43.8 FD: Yeah, it's been absolutely beautiful.

 

0:12:45.6 AS: These are bonus days. My dad says as long as we don't have to shovel it.

 

0:12:50.6 FD: That's right exactly. Those days will come, I'm sure. But we'll enjoy these unseasonably warm and sunny days while we can.

 

0:13:01.5 AS: I think so we're excited to have a little time to chat with you today. I know your time is precious, so we really appreciate you being here. Well, we may have to do a series of fireside chats with you since you are in charge of so many essential and meaningful classes, programs, initiatives. You name it, you do it, I think. So we're going to jump into just at least a few of those today with the time that we have, and I'm going to just jump right in, if that's okay with you.

 

0:13:27.3 FD: Absolutely.

 

0:13:28.3 AS: Okay. All right. So I don't know if you're aware, but this season we're sort of doing fun Notre Dame trivia to kick things off. Are you nervous?

 

0:13:36.6 FD: I am. I mean. Well, I'll give it my best shot.

 

0:13:40.2 AS: Great. I do think that I was telling Taylor Kelly, who was our last guest, but the unfortunate thing for you guys is that you're sort of later in the year. So I've used up a lot of the really easy trivia, but.

 

0:13:53.8 FD: Oh, no, I'm sorry to hear that.

 

0:13:57.6 AS: But I always try to tailor it a little bit to our guests, and I think that you're going to find some of these right up your alley.

 

0:14:03.0 S3: Great.

 

0:14:03.5 AS: Okay, so here we go. Okay. True or false. Notre Dame was first a primary and secondary school.

 

0:14:09.4 FD: Well, Fr. Sorin, this is kind of a long answer. I'm giving you more than a true and false. True or false answer. But Fr. Sorin arrived here. He called it the University of Notre Dame du Lac from the very beginning. So he called it a university, but we had mostly primary and secondary school students for many years, for the first few decades. That's my answer. So I guess my answer is yes.

 

0:14:34.9 AS: Yes, it is true. But actually you gave us bonus information. So I thought it was maybe just a couple of years because in my research got the university charter and 1844 sort of two years after. But apparently maybe for many years it was mostly a primary and secondary institution.

 

0:14:51.1 FD: Yeah, I mean, I suppose I stand to be corrected in terms of like the majority of students, but I would imagine that a sizable number of students for the first decade or two were primary and secondary school students. I know that they closed the MINIM program maybe in their 1920s. And St. Edwards hall, not too far from where we are chatting here, was home to the MINIM program, essentially the primary school program.

 

0:15:20.1 AS: It's so cool. Yeah, it's. It's pretty much almost right next door. And, oh, I just love. It's one of the older. Older. I can't remember now. I'm going to have to look at my trivia. Older or oldest one?

 

0:15:30.4 FD: I think it's the oldest. 1882. And among the residence halls, I mean, old college dates to 1842, but I know Sorin hall and St. Edwards Hall. There's a long, raging debate about which one is the oldest residence hall in continuous use. But since I lived in St. Edwards hall for 12 years, I'm going to go with St. Edwards and it was built in 1882.

 

0:15:58.6 AS: Okay. And I'm going to go with you because I think that that's true. And also Sorin Spoiler alert. Gets a shout out. A little further in my trivia here with you today. So we'll give this one to St. Ed's.

 

0:16:10.2 FD: All right. Excellent.

 

0:16:11.8 AS: Hopefully also right up your alley. What does the University of Notre Dame du Lac mean?

 

0:16:17.1 FD: University of Our lady of the Lake.

 

0:16:19.7 AS: Yay. Good job.

 

0:16:20.8 FD: All right. My translation was okay, I hope.

 

0:16:24.8 AS: Yes. Your French is much better. Your French accent is much better than mine, so thank you.

 

0:16:30.4 FD: Well, I'm glad to hear you say that.

 

0:16:32.9 AS: Yeah. On all fronts. Okay, so that's two for two. Oh, I have to laugh. When I was looking up the information, I think it's on Notre Dame's history page, and it says, Fr. Sorin, a man of lively imagination. And I was like, was he a man of lively imagination or was that sort of sarcastic? I'm not quite sure.

 

0:16:51.7 FD: I think he was a man of lively imagination in fact.

 

0:16:56.9 AS: He would have had to be.

 

0:16:57.0 FD: He was a dreamer. Yeah. And he set to work in realizing those dreams. That's the amazing thing. He was amazingly effective and persistent at realizing a vision that he had. And it's amazing to think about him arriving in 1842 at the site of essentially the log chapel and finding a dilapidated old log chapel there and calling it from day one, the University of Notre Dame du Lack. So it's just amazing. Calling it a university, calling a dilapidated old log chapel a university. He saw something. He was a dreamer.

 

0:17:34.6 AS: He was a dreamer for sure. And we are all entirely grateful for that. And so, yes, I'll let that slide. A man of lively imagination. Perfect. Okay, so this is. Now, those were obviously university related, but I did hear that your dad used to bring you to Notre Dame games when you were little, maybe when you were growing up. So I thought I'd toss in one question. A touch of athletics, A touch of God, and a touch of athletics.

 

0:18:00.0 FD: Sure.

 

0:18:00.9 AS: Which God quad residence hall was home to each of the four Horsemen? They all lived in one hall.

 

0:18:08.0 FD: They all lived in one hall. I didn't realize that. I'm going to go with Sorin Hall. Did I get it?

 

0:18:14.1 AS: Yes.

 

0:18:14.5 FD: All right. Okay.

 

0:18:17.5 AS: I guess I did give you an extra clue, but I feel like you would have gotten it anyway.

 

0:18:21.5 FD: Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate any and all clues.

 

0:18:26.0 AS: I love it. Now, can you name the God Quad residence halls?

 

0:18:29.3 FD: Yeah. Well, Sorin, Walsh, and at least those are the two residence halls.

 

0:18:34.7 AS: Now, is St. Ed's a part of the God Quad?

 

0:18:36.9 FD: No, no, I don't think so. I think it's kind of almost on a quad of its own.

 

0:18:44.7 AS: Is this because you live there again?

 

0:18:46.6 FD: Yeah. Yeah. So it's. I mean, I said that's an interesting question. Maybe it is considered part of the God quad. I don't know what the. You know how most people would answer that. You'd have to. I wonder what Fr. Ralph Haig, who's the current rector of St. Edwards hall, would say how he would answer that question. Whether St. Ed's is part of the God Quad, or does it form a quad of its own?

 

0:19:09.5 AS: I bet he's going to go with quad of its own, too. I think the two of you can make it happen. TBD.

 

0:19:16.1 FD: Okay, great. Number four. If my guest went to Notre Dame undergrad, which you did. I usually try to work in a trivia question about their dorm. As Notre Dame luck would have it, thanks to our Alumni association, as I was researching, they're featuring something they're calling Home Suite hall this week, highlighting some of the halls on campus that no longer house permanent residential communities, but they live on in the hearts of their alumni. Your dorm, Grace is one such place. I believe it's very useful in other ways now, but it is no longer a residence hall. This one is multiple choice. So which is true about Grace Hall? Number one nickname is the Grace Lightning. Number two still sports its trademark number one sign that is lit whenever a Notre Dame team reaches the top spot in the rankings. Three boasted its own TV station, Grace Vision, founded in the late '80s. Were you. Did you have a hand in that? I don't know. By the halls.

 

0:20:12.1 FD: I remember it. I wasn't involved, but I enjoyed Grace Vision.

 

0:20:17.7 AS: Okay, great. It was founded in the late 80s by the Hall's rector, exclusively for Grace residents. The station was housed in the basement and featured broadcasts from inter and intra hall sports events, the Grace hall elections, and a variety show. I'm definitely going to have to hear more about this variety show. But one more. In 1996, the men of Grace moved into O'Neill hall, which was converted into an office building that still use today. Or 5. All of the above. Which ones are true?

 

0:20:48.8 FD: Which ones are true of Grace?

 

0:20:49.9 AS: Which ones are true of Grace.

 

0:20:52.1 FD: Gosh, I'd say maybe all of them. I mean, at least the first one. You asked about the nickname for Grace. Grace. Grace Lightning. Is that it?

 

0:21:05.4 AS: Yes.

 

0:21:06.8 FD: I don't seem to remember that, but I guess that could have been our nickname. I'm not sure what our nickname was. I can't remember, but that one struck me as perhaps possibly false. But I think all the others seem to be true. Is that. Is that right?

 

0:21:23.7 AS: Yeah. Yeah.

 

0:21:24.5 FD: The first One is false. The first one is.

 

0:21:26.0 AS: No, sorry. No, they're all true.

 

0:21:27.3 FD: Oh, they're all true.

 

0:21:29.6 AS: All of the above. Yep. Yep.

 

0:21:31.0 FD: Okay.

 

0:21:31.5 AS: I think, I don't know if it was like.

 

0:21:33.0 FD: Grace Lightning. Okay.

 

0:21:34.6 AS: Grace Lightning. Like Grease Lightning from the, from the movie Grease.

 

0:21:38.5 FD: Yeah.

 

0:21:39.1 AS: I'm not sure.

 

0:21:40.1 FD: And they just called it Grace Lightning.

 

0:21:42.0 AS: Yeah, I guess so. But. But yeah, so I guess that those were all on the alumni association's Facebook page today. And so I thought. And they happened. Yeah. Happened to be there and I thought, well, this is. I had a few random questions about Grace, but that seemed more fun. So, yeah, lots of good history over there at Grace.

 

0:22:00.0 FD: Yeah, absolutely. It's just amazing to think about 500 guys living in Grace, 500 guys living in Flanner. Those were the days.

 

0:22:09.4 AS: You say amazing. No, wonderful.

 

0:22:12.1 FD: Well, challenging for the rector and the assistant rectors and the entire hall staff. But we enjoyed ourselves. It was Notre Dame has an approach to residence life that. With an emphasis on community. And many people would say that it was difficult to build community in residence halls so large and that had 10 floors. But I think that there were significant pockets of community in each of those halls. But I would probably agree with those who would say that it was difficult to form a hall wide community in each of those buildings.

 

0:22:52.7 AS: Yeah, but I bet you're right. I think those pockets are very tight and folks found sort of their own little neighborhoods. Weren't they anchored by... Were they anchored by quads or something?

 

0:23:06.6 FD: I feel like, yeah, there were. Yeah. So there are two sections on every floor and in each section I think there were 25 or 26 guys. And so. Yeah, so there was a fair amount of section unity that we developed in section community.

 

0:23:22.8 AS: Yeah, that's right.

 

0:23:23.9 FD: But difficult to build the hall wide community.

 

0:23:26.4 AS: I hear that. So I guess. But When I was here, I lived in PW, so I thought it was an extra bonus that I lived so close to both of those.

 

0:23:35.4 FD: Sure. Yeah.

 

0:23:36.7 AS: Lots of friends in both.

 

0:23:37.7 FD: There was always a lot going on in each of those halls, that's for sure.

 

0:23:41.0 AS: Never a dull moment. Yeah, this is. Even though it's not a dorm anymore, it still lives on in the residents hearts. And so does it still live on in your heart, Fr. Bob?

 

0:23:50.3 FD: Sure. I have some great memories from those years in Grace hall. Without a doubt. Some of my. I stay in touch with many of the friends that I made during those years and including my roommate and some very good memories of Those amazing years in grace. Those years in amazing grace.

 

0:24:10.6 AS: There you go. That's what their nickname should have been.

 

0:24:12.9 FD: Yeah.

 

0:24:13.4 AS: Amazing Grace.

 

0:24:14.5 FD: Yeah.

 

0:24:16.1 AS: Apparently, Fr. Jenkins also lived in there.

 

0:24:18.6 FD: That's. That's right. That's right. A few years before me. We did not overlap.

 

0:24:23.6 AS: Yes, a few years. Yes. Okay, great. One more. And I think. I think this is also a toss towards you. The congregation of Holy Cross community seal is the cross and anchors, and its motto, Ave crux spes unica, if I'm even remotely close.

 

0:24:39.8 FD: Yes, you are. You are.

 

0:24:41.4 AS: Good. Thank you. What does that translate to?

 

0:24:45.0 FD: So, hail the cross, our only hope. Ave crux spes unica. Yeah.

 

0:24:50.3 AS: Thank you. See? Okay, listen, my friends...

 

0:24:53.4 FD: If I would get that one wrong, I'd be big, big trouble.

 

0:24:57.8 AS: That's why I left it as your anchor one, number five. I knew you'd get it. I knew you'd get it.

 

0:25:04.0 FD: Well, thanks.

 

0:25:04.1 AS: Oh, you're. Yeah, you're welcome. Absolutely. And, listeners, please listen to Fr. Bob's pronunciation on all of these things, because you say them much more beautifully than I do, so appreciate your patience with that. But, yes, five out of five. Good job.

 

0:25:18.3 FD: Oh, well, thank you. You're very generous. You gave me some softballs right over the plate.

 

0:25:25.4 AS: Well, it's our little gift to you.

 

0:25:27.5 FD: Thank you.

 

0:25:28.8 AS: Okay. All right. Well, also, in a bit of the style of Think. Pair. Share. I tend to ask folks sort of their path to Notre Dame. It's oftentimes a winding road, but did you always want to go to Notre Dame? Did you have moments in your childhood that sort of. Sort of foreshadowed where you might. Where you might be?

 

0:25:47.0 FD: Well, thank you for that question, Audrey. Yeah, I mean, I grew up not far from campus, actually. I mean, I grew up in Michigan City, Indiana, so about halfway between South Bend and Chicago. And my dad is A. Was a 1956 Notre Dame graduate, and I kind of grew up with Notre Dame on the brain.

 

0:26:07.4 FD: He shared his affinity for Notre Dame with me. And as you mentioned earlier, I would come to campus, he would bring me and my mom would bring me and my sister, who's 11 months younger than me, to football games. And I just developed a deep affinity for Notre Dame and was blessed and fortunate enough to attend Notre Dame as an undergraduate. And as you mentioned, I lived in Grace hall, and I majored in psychology and economics.

 

0:26:38.1 AS: Wow.

 

0:26:38.8 FD: Yeah. And I was very much interested in issues of social justice as an undergraduate. The center for Social Concerns was just getting started. Fr. Don McNeil, a Holy Cross priest, a great man, founded the center, but it was just getting off the ground. But I was very interested in social justice, and my interest in economics, in large part, was a function of that interest. And I also majored in psychology. Just very interested in mental health and thought about for a while going into psychiatry after graduating. But instead, I entered the congregation of Holy Cross, entered the seminary after graduating in 1987, and the rest is sort of history in the making. But I loved my time as an undergraduate at Notre Dame. Certainly there were challenging times, but they were also just wonderful times, and I learned a lot, and I really owe it all to my dad and my mom and their commitment to my sister and I. They really laid down their lives and gave us their best and made it possible for us to attend Notre Dame. I grew up in a family that wasn't particularly wealthy, and I know it was really very challenging for my parents, and so I feel like that I.

 

0:28:05.7 FD: That I owe them a lot, and they were my first and best teachers. Learned a lot from their example.

 

0:28:15.2 AS: I feel the same way. I feel so blessed. I feel like my family, my parents are just my heroes. Yes, they did a lot of that same stuff for us.

 

0:28:25.0 FD: Sure.

 

0:28:25.9 AS: Tell me a little bit more about them. Your dad, you said, brought you to games. Did the whole family come? Was your mom sort of in charge of other things and you're. You guys snuck off for the day or.

 

0:28:39.0 FD: Yeah, well, often we would come. My sister is 11 months younger than. Than me, and he would often come. Um, there came a time when my dad suffered from some health issues, and so my mom really ended up really raising my sister and I, and from a certain point on, probably from the time we were 10 or 12 years old, and so even after my dad's health issues made it impossible for him to bring us to Games, my mom would bring us to Games and would bring us to campus, and so. So that was just wonderful. Her dedication and her commitment to us, to doing everything she could possibly do to encourage us and to be there for us and support us is something I'm eternally grateful for.

 

0:29:30.8 AS: Absolutely. Oh, I can feel that so much. A true blessing to have parents like that.

 

0:29:36.5 FD: Yeah. Very much blessed by wonderful parents. Yeah.

 

0:29:40.4 AS: Growing up, I'm sorry that your Father was not able to maybe be around in those same ways, but it sounds like he was still a big presence in your life.

 

0:29:49.3 FD: Yeah, he absolutely was. I mean even though he couldn't be as present to us because of his health issues. After a certain point, he continued to be an inspiration and really an important part of my life and my sister's life, for that matter.

 

0:30:08.8 AS: That's really beautiful. I think when you were accepted to Notre Dame, what, I mean, were they over the moon? Were they sort of always hoping that might be the case?

 

0:30:17.7 FD: Yeah, they were both very much, very excited and happy for me, especially my dad. My mom was, too, but my mom was more like, how are we going to pay for this? She was much more on the practical side, my dad, we were talking about dreamers and the fact that Fr. Sorin was a dreamer. I think my dad was more of a dreamer. He was a dreamer and my mom was also a dreamer, but she also had a bit more of the practical side. But they were both excited. And my mom made it work and so really grateful for her commitment.

 

0:30:56.6 AS: Oh, yeah, that's such a lovely story. So thanks for sharing that. Thank you.

 

0:31:00.2 FD: Oh, you're welcome.

 

0:31:01.2 AS: Yeah, I'm sure you've answered this sometimes before, but if people are sort of hearing from you from the first time, maybe did you always feel like you wanted to be an educator or did you always feel like you wanted to maybe consider the priesthood? I mean, how far back does that calling go for you?

 

0:31:17.3 FD: Yeah, I when I was a kid, I did pretend to be a teacher at times. And so with my sister and my friends at a young age. And I was very taken by my teachers growing up. And this begins as early as first grade. I had two Sisters of the Holy Cross. You know, the Sisters of the Holy cross are at St. Mary's College, right. Right here at Notre Dame. Their mother house is there, and they staffed the grade school that I attended as well as the high school that I attended in Michigan City.

 

0:31:56.4 AS: I didn't know that.

 

0:31:57.4 FD: Yeah. And my first grade teachers are still very much alive and kicking, if you can believe that. Sister Carmel Marie, she is at St. Mary's and in fact, I just saw her a few days ago and she's still very active and on the move. And she's a real character. She's a character in the best sense of the word. And then Sister Alice Clare, both of them are CSC's Sisters of the Holy Cross. She too is over at St. Mary's still very much alive and kicking. But they were just wonderful teachers. And of course, maybe everybody just loves their first grade teacher. Hopefully everybody loves their first grade teachers, but they they were remarkable. We just loved them. They were so funny and kind and wonderful in working with first graders and then throughout my time in grade school, I think was blessed with wonderful teachers in high school as well. And this got me thinking when I came to Notre Dame, that I could see myself as a teacher. One day I noted that I majored in psychology as well as economics, and I thought about being a psychiatrist, going into the field of mental health.

 

0:33:15.1 FD: But I also very much thought about serving as a teacher. And actually, one reason why I entered the congregation of Holy Cross, why I entered the seminary is because I knew that the Holy Cross community was dedicated to education. And so I did feel called to be a part of a community of educators. My parents, when I entered the seminary, they're both very supportive, but I always knew that they were really interested in my happiness. They wanted me to be happy. They wanted to make sure that I was getting into a way of life that would truly make me happy. So I never felt any pressure in one way or the other, actually, whether it's to stay in the seminary or whether it's to leave the seminary. I was blessed with parents and been blessed with parents who simply had my best interest at heart. I think that's the case for most parents. You could probably say that. We could all say that, you know. Yeah, we can hope that. That most people can say that. But certainly they were supportive of my decision to enter the seminary and my decision to eventually make final vows and be ordained a Holy Cross priest.

 

0:34:33.4 FD: But I always knew that what was most important to them was that I be happy. So I just felt a lot of support, a lot of love, a lot of encouragement.

 

0:34:42.6 AS: That is an incalculable gift, I think. And are you happy?

 

0:34:50.4 FD: Absolutely. Yeah I think I love being a priest. I love being a Holy Cross priest. It's a huge blessing, and it's a blessing that I don't deserve, but it's a blessing, and that's what makes it a blessing. It's all grace, but I love the opportunity that it gives me to accompany people to enter into their lives, to help them to recognize God's presence in their lives. I think ultimately, finally, that's the role of a priest, is to help people to recognize God's presence and also to be a bridge builder. I think priests in a particular way, are called to be bridge builders, helping people to build bridges that connect them more deeply to the presence of God and also with each other. So if there's one thing that I hope I can continue to strive to be in my own life, it's to be a bridge builder.

 

0:35:52.1 AS: Oh, I really like that image too. The thought and the image and what genuinely sounds from you to be a commitment to that. That's actually really reassuring and hopeful.

 

0:36:04.8 FD: Yeah. Thank you.

 

0:36:06.0 AS: Sure, no. Thank you.

 

0:36:07.3 FD: I know that you're a bridge builder yourself. I, I know it. You're building a bridge right now. You're building bridges right now. But I do think that so many people at the Institute for Educational Initiatives are bridge builders. You know, helping young people to make the most of their God given potential and building bridges into the future for these young people.

 

0:36:29.2 AS: Well, I like that. And that's an inspirational idea. Inspirational and aspirational, tied to when you are in the seminary. I don't know that this is common, but maybe it is. Let us know. You did some of your, you did part of your seminary in Africa?

 

0:36:47.9 FD: I did part of my seminary studies in Africa.

 

0:36:51.0 AS: Okay, great. It does feel like you have a deep affinity for Africa and the people there. I've never visited, although I would very much like to. But can you tell me first off, can you remember how it felt when you stepped off the plane and you knew this new land would be your home for the foreseeable future?

 

0:37:09.7 FD: Yeah. No, I love that question. Yeah. I was so excited to go to Africa. I asked as a seminarian, I asked if I could spend a year and a half of my seminary training, my formation in East Africa with our Holy Cross community there. My request was granted. And so I went off to Kenya to join our Holy Cross community there. And I arrived in December of 1990. And yeah, upon graduation, getting off that plane, I was thrilled. I was truly excited. Now it was very, very early in the morning and I remember that Fr. Russ McDougall picked me up. At the time. He was Deacon Russ McDougall. He's a holy Cross priest. Fr. Russ is now working at King's College in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. But Russ was there in Dandora. Dandora is a section of Nairobi, Kenya, and Holy Cross has administered a parish there since 1978. And at the time it was also home to our formation house, our seminary program. And so we were essentially located in a. For lack of a better term, I'll use the term slum, but I don't like using it because it seems to suggest that certain. I don't know, stereotype about the people who live there that I'd like to avoid.

 

0:38:29.1 FD: But Dandora was a Very tough place to live. And for most people, it was overcrowded. A huge dump site was located right in the middle of this area. And that's where I lived for a year and a half. Not long after arriving and after seeing some of the extreme poverty and the real struggle of people and not speaking the local language. Although English is used kind of widely in Kenya and in Dandora, Swahili is much more common. I remember thinking not long after I arrived that I was pretty naive to think that I could handle all of that. And I remember standing on top of our formation house. We had kind of a big patio on top of our formation house. And you could see planes taking off from the airport in the distance. And I would see planes taking off at night. And I'd find myself kind of wishing I was on one of those planes on my way out of the country. But deep down inside, I knew I was in the right place. Deep down inside, I knew I was where God wanted me to be. And by the time I left, a year and a half later, I really didn't want to leave.

 

0:39:42.9 FD: I wanted to stay. It was clear to me that the people of Dandora, with whom I lived and worked would be a part of my life. That. That they would continue to be a part of me. And that there's no way that I could totally turn my back on them. That I would be back. And in fact, I have been back quite often to Nairobi, to Kenya, to East Africa more generally. I've been back there a lot and back to Dandora quite a bit. And have been very involved, along with several other people, in developing a hospital there. Which is administered by the Congregation of Holy Cross. It's called Brother Andre Hospital in the Dandora area of Nairobi. So anyway, that's a bit of my Africa story. I studied while I was there as a seminarian. I studied for one year, one academic year. So studied theology with African seminarians from all over Africa. That was just a huge blessing. That was just a real eye opener for me. And I made some great friends. It also exposed me to the church in Africa in a way that I wouldn't have been otherwise. Suddenly I became just much aware of the church's global presence, the Catholic Church's global reach, as well as Holy Cross's international mission.

 

0:41:00.6 FD: I became aware in a very real way of the fact that Holy Cross is an international religious community. Not just a community religious community based in the United States and at Notre Dame, but a religious community with international reach and at work in some of the I think, poorest parts of the world, and parts of the world where material poverty, anyway, is a real challenge. Speaking of material poverty, one thing that really inspired me during my time in East Africa is that so many people refuse to let material poverty rob them of their humanity. And this I found and continue to find so incredibly inspiring. I think it's an important lesson for many people. It's their faith that allows them to live their lives with dignity and to live their lives in charity. It's their faith that I think helps them to hope and to face the challenges they face each and every day. There's one story that I can tell. One is a story about when I was in the. In the hospital, Brother Andre Hospital, and I was there in that hospital in the waiting area, and a young woman was sitting in that waiting area.

 

0:42:22.0 FD: She was surrounded by three small children. And I caught her eye, and she had the big, wide smile on her face. And we struck up a conversation. And I found out her name is Nyambura. And then Nyambura went on to tell me a bit about her life. She had just lost her job in the city of Nairobi, and so she had taken up selling vegetables in Dandora, and she lived with her mother. Her husband had passed away about a year earlier because of complications due to hiv/aids. And after hearing this story, it's almost like she could almost tell that I was just taken back by it all, amazed by it all. I mean, I did wonder, how can this woman possibly smile after all she's been through? And it's almost like she could tell that I was thinking this. And she said I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid. I have God. I have you people. I have the church. I'm not afraid. And I was just. I was just really struck by what she she said. And upon reflection, I was thinking if Nyambura is not afraid, who am I to be afraid? The challenges I face are nothing compared to the challenges that she faces.

 

0:44:07.4 FD: And so Nyambura is a person I think about often. Her example inspires me. It's a real example of faith and just the power of the human spirit, the power of the Holy Spirit. And so, yeah, that's just an example of an encounter there that has inspired me so much. And that's why I say that I think I received much more than I gave.

 

0:44:36.6 AS: She was talking to you for a reason, though. You're giving as much hope and that smile out to Folks as evidence that they are not alone. And so I bet you anything you helped her much that day as well.

 

0:44:50.1 FD: Oh, thank you. Thank you, Audrey. Yeah. My vocation, in many ways, my vocation to the religious life and to the priesthood is one very much grounded in the social justice and in Catholic social teaching. And my time in East Africa as a seminarian provide me a wonderful opportunity to learn that social teaching. In a very real way. It provided me with a wonderful. A sense of perspective on how people make the most of their potential, how God helps people to make the most of their potential in some of the most challenging conditions. Certainly, we have our challenges here in this country, and I do think that we need to hang in there. We need God's help. We also need bridge builders. Back to the whole bridge builder theme during this time. And so my hope is that the Institute for Educational Initiative and Notre Dame more generally can serve to build bridges that help people to have a healthy sense of community.

 

0:45:53.8 AS: I agree. And I would like to explore maybe some of the ways that the institute might be able to play a part in that is already. And maybe what we can be looking to do as well. As we mentioned, you wear many, many hats. And I think if I had more time, I would ask you, where do you find the time?

 

0:46:10.8 FD: Yeah.

 

0:46:13.5 AS: But one of the many hats is you are vice president and associate Provost for Interdisciplinary Initiatives, and I believe the Institute for Educational Initiatives falls under those auspices. And we are so lucky to have you as our guiding light in the golden dome just a building or so away. I know you have a passion for education, and you're mentioning bridge builders, and I love the fact that you consider us a part of that. So can you tell me first kind of what that title means are to this institute and others on campus?

 

0:46:45.2 FD: Sure. So, yeah. So I'm vice president and associate Provost for Interdisciplinary Initiatives, and this means that I have the pleasure of working with various institutes and centers, multidisciplinary institutes and centers that exist at the university level, which means they don't fall within any particular college or school at the university. And so the Institute for Educational Initiatives is one of those institutes that I have the pleasure of working with. And I just am so excited about the institute. It's such a blessing to Notre Dame. There's so many wonderful programs. Everybody knows about the alliance for Catholic Education, but there are also just amazing programs that are a part of the institute that are doing tremendous work at serving children in schools across this country and also forming teachers and forming leaders for Schools. This work is just so crucial. And I think Catholic education is at an inflection point.

 

0:47:48.3 FD: I think that these are challenging days for many Catholic schools in different parts of this country. And I think the Institute for Educational Initiatives is uniquely positioned to address some of these challenges to Catholic. Convene those who are most familiar with those challenges, who are working in the schools, who are really in the so called trenches of Catholic education and thinking about the future and thinking about how to address the most significant challenges that we face, how to make Catholic schools more accessible, how to make sure that Catholic schools are actually fulfilling their mission and integrating the growth in knowledge with the growth and wisdom and love and faith and hope.

 

0:48:39.4 FD: So I think that the Institute for Educational Initiatives is so important for Notre Dame's mission. You know, here at Notre Dame, we just released our strategic framework for the next 10 years or so, and one of the important themes is global Catholicism. And I think that the Institute for Educational Initiatives really help us to further that theme, to bring people together from across the university to work together on research projects that help us to understand the importance of Catholic education in our world today. So I think there are just so many wonderful ways that the Institute for Educational Initiatives has been contributing to the church and to Catholic education and to furthering the mission of Notre Dame. And I'm just totally excited about the future. I know that the best is yet to come.

 

0:49:31.3 AS: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I know we were talking about K through 12 schools, but how do you hope a Notre Dame education and experience will sort of transform the minds and hearts of those who come here? I think we talked earlier about that Blessed Basil Moreau quote. While we prepare useful citizens for society, we shall likewise do our utmost to prepare citizens for heaven. We shall always place education side by side with instruction. The mind will not be cultivated at the expense of the heart. Does that speak to you? And what does that sort of say today about the Catholic character of Notre Dame going forward?

 

0:50:09.4 FD: My hope is that Notre Dame is always a place where the life of the mind and the life of the heart are integrated. We've been blessed with leadership since the founding of Notre Dame that has always seen Catholic mission and identity of the university and academic excellence as two sides of the same coin. And I think it's incredibly important going forward that we continue to build on that legacy. And what does this mean, in fact? I mean, I really think it means that we develop an ecosystem here, a culture, programming that not only helps students to grow in knowledge and technical skills as important as they are, but to grow in empathy for others, especially those who suffer the most, to develop their capacity for compassion, to recognize that there's more to life than what meets the eye, and to always respect the God given dignity of each and every human being and the integrity of all of creation. So that's a long answer, but I really think that at the heart of Notre Dame's unique mission is this holding together the life of the mind and the life of the heart. I think that's at the core of what it means to be a Catholic university.

 

0:51:28.0 FD: And I'm excited about how we're going to realize this mission into the future, building on the legacy that we've been blessed with here, thanks to wonderful leadership.

 

0:51:37.8 AS: And that actually leads me to another thought, which is one of those wonderful leaders is going to be sort of wrapping up his tenure. Yeah. Fr. Jenkins. Whenever you sort of get a new leader, it's an exciting but maybe a nervous time. How are things as that sort of starts to transpire? Maybe you're more used to that sort of thing, but I feel like they come few and far between. New presidents of the. Of the University of Notre Dame.

 

0:52:02.1 FD: Oh, yeah, that's very true. I mean, Fr. Hesburgh served as president for 35 years, and Fr. Malloy served as president for 18, and now Fr. Jenkins for 19 years. Yeah. I just have the utmost admiration and respect for Fr. Jenkins. I think he's done a remarkable job. I think he's led with vision and with courage and with humility, and he has helped us to, I think, stay true to our mission. He's grown the university in ways that are truly significant, I think, of our growth in research, growth and diversity as we've made strides to reflect more the rich diversity of the Catholic Church when it comes to our undergraduate student body. And I think that he's stewarded in Notre Dame well as president. And so I'm really hopeful about the future. Notre Dame is poised to make an ever greater positive difference in the world.

 

0:53:00.2 AS: Amen to that.

 

0:53:01.2 FD: Yeah.

 

0:53:01.8 AS: I always wrap with, are you hopeful? I kind of already know. I can tell by the smile on your face. But are you hopeful?

 

0:53:08.7 FD: Audrey I am incredibly hopeful about the future, and it's largely because of the interaction I have with young people here at Notre Dame. They're incredibly talented and dedicated and hardworking and smart. Their heart is in the right place. I can't help but be really hopeful about the future. We face so many challenges in our world today, and I think the temptation is to become a bit fatalistic and to throw up our hands and just say there isn't much we can do about those challenges. And I think that we're called to do better than that. And here at Notre Dame, we have a community made up of people who are dedicated to doing better than that. The young people I work with, my colleagues, many of them here at the IEI, fill me with hope. They are so dedicated to doing what is right to making the most of their gifts and turning outward into the world in ways that make it more humane and just so I am very, very hopeful about the future.

 

0:54:06.3 AS: Hail the cross. Our only hope.

 

0:54:08.3 FD: Yes, the cross is our only hope. So, yeah, and I take that to mean, like, we need to face challenges. We can't ignore them. We need to face suffering and injustice. We need to address them. And another way of saying that, I think, is we need to embrace the cross, not run away from it, not shirk it. And it's only by embracing that cross and facing these challenges that we get to a better place. But of course, it's only with God's help that we can face these challenges effectively. It's only with God's help that we can embrace the cross. So the good news is God. God means to help us to do that. And so I do think that it's a great way to end by saying, Ave crux spes unica.

 

0:54:55.2 AS: Thank you so much, Fr. Bob. I really appreciate it. I'm sorry we crammed so much in and I could ask you a million more questions, but...

 

0:55:02.4 FD: Well, if you ever want to continue conversation, let me know.

 

0:55:06.3 AS: I may just have to do that. But I know you're so busy, but I really, really, really, really appreciate it, your time and your thoughts here today. So all the best. And thank you again.

 

0:55:15.8 FD: Thank you. Thank you, Audrey. And I look forward to staying in touch.

 

0:55:19.4 AS: Okay, I appreciate that. Oh, I look forward to it, too. Thank you.

 

0:55:22.3 FD: All right.

 

0:55:24.8 AS: And thank you all for joining us for Think. Pair. Share. If you enjoyed this episode, head on over to Apple Podcasts to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It's very much appreciated. Check out our website @iei.nd.Edu/Media for this and other goodies. Thanks for listening and for now, off we go.