Fr. Joe Carey, CSC: Education, Treasured.

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0:00:09.1 Audrey Scott: Welcome to this modern education podcast that explores learning, from the everyday exchange of thoughts and ideas to the theories and practices behind entire systems. Think education is cool? So do we. So we pair two conversations, learn about our guests, then learn from our guests, share your takeaways, and come back for more. You're listening to Think. Pair. Share. With me, Audrey Scott.
 
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0:00:39.9 AS: My guest today is Father Joseph Carey, affectionately known as FJ. He's served the congregation of Holy Cross in Notre Dame in various roles for over 50 years, from working with the University Career Center, the Financial Aid Department, Campus Ministry, the Alliance for Catholic Education, teaching real First Year Experience courses, and serving as rector of Dillon Hall and as priest-in-residence in Pasquerilla West and Ryan Hall, not to mention as chaplain for the women's lacrosse team. He is a beloved figure around campus and beyond. It's my extreme pleasure to welcome him to Think. Pair. Share. Hi, FJ. Welcome.
 
0:01:17.0 Father Joseph Carey: Thank you. Can you hear me? 
 
0:01:19.6 AS: I sure can, loud and clear. Hi, Father Joe. How are you? 
 
0:01:22.9 FJ: I'm fine. How are you, Audrey? 
 
0:01:24.9 AS: Oh, I'm really well. Thank you so much for joining us today.
 
0:01:27.8 FJ: It's my pleasure to be here.
 
0:01:30.0 AS: Well, apparently a priest's work is never done 'cause we backed this up just a little bit because you actually were helping another one of the many people you've... A newly engaged couple, was it, this morning? 
 
0:01:40.7 FJ: Right. They're getting married on Friday. And the bride is a ACE grad and a Remick grad. And now it's wonderful to be celebrating her wedding with her.
 
0:01:52.3 AS: Actually, that's one of the things that I've heard about you. Do you have any idea how many weddings you've celebrated? 
 
0:01:57.5 FJ: You know, I can only estimate it. About six or seven years ago, there was an article in Notre Dame Magazine written about me, and it was called The Wedding Priest. And I estimated, at the time, somewhere around four to 500, somewhere in that range. I always regret that I never kept track of it, but I didn't know I would do so many weddings in my life. It's my favorite sacrament, marriage, so. And I've always loved doing weddings. One of the things I always feel like is that everyone needs their own homily, so I don't have a stable of four or five. There's something unique about every person's wedding. A few years ago, I was doing a wedding. The bride had grown up in the Chicago area, and the groom in New York. So I was telling someone about the couple, and he asked me, "Do you have your homily ready?"
 
0:02:57.5 FJ: And I said, "Well, I'm really kind of struggling a little bit with it." And so this person said to me, "Well, it's all about pizza, New York style and Chicago style." And so I used that as how you have to compromise. Some days you might eat Chicago style; on other days, New York. And so after the wedding, the bride and groom said to me, "The only thing we've ever argued about is pizza." So it was really through that person asking me that question. I think the Holy Spirit inspired me to go with that, in that direction. And it was all about compromise and creating harmony in a marriage.
 
0:03:39.9 AS: Oh, that's actually a really great example. People take their pizza very seriously in both of those places.
 
0:03:45.4 FJ: They do. [chuckle] And so is it.
 
0:03:48.7 AS: Well, I used to live in Chicago for many years, so I'm a little bit partial to that, but I did live in New York right after college, so I certainly see the merits there too, but I hope this isn't a Cubs/White Sox kind of thing where you can't like both 'cause I do.
 
0:04:01.5 FJ: You can. I like both, so.
 
0:04:03.7 AS: Good, me too. So I think we're gonna kinda jump right in 'cause we have lots of questions after the fun section. This is a little bit of a mixed bag, but maybe not overly surprising for the theme, since we are in June, and on the third Sunday in June, we like to celebrate a particular special day. Do you know what it is? 
 
0:04:21.3 FJ: Father's Day.
 
0:04:24.1 AS: Father's day. And you are a spiritual father for us, and we certainly appreciate that and wish you the best on that day too, but that's...
 
0:04:31.6 FJ: Thank you.
 
0:04:33.1 AS: Yeah, you're welcome.
 
0:04:33.9 FJ: I think about it a lot, and I think about how important it is and how much my father had an impact on my life, so.
 
0:04:46.3 AS: Yes, of course. Oh my gosh. Blessed with some really great fathers. I'm partial. Mine is the best.
 
0:04:52.3 FJ: We're all biased.
 
0:04:54.0 AS: We're all biased. Exactly. But I thought we'd ask a few fun questions around sort of fathers in general for their special day. Yeah, great. So true or false, in addition to the well-known Father's Day held the third Sunday in June, the last Sunday in October is priesthood Sunday and is set aside to thank our spiritual fathers, priests.
 
0:05:15.2 FJ: I didn't know that.
 
0:05:17.8 AS: But it is true [chuckle]
 
0:05:17.9 FJ: I believe you, so.
 
0:05:22.9 AS: Yeah. So I didn't know that either, but that's nice. And so I'm gonna have to mark that in my calendars from here on out, so you get two special days a year.
 
0:05:30.9 FJ: I guess I'll... Yeah.
 
0:05:32.3 AS: Oh, okay, great. So this is a multiple choice, which US President made Father's Day a national holiday, George Washington, Richard Nixon or Barack Obama? 
 
0:05:42.3 FJ: Probably George Washington.
 
0:05:44.1 AS: It was right in the middle, Richard Nixon.
 
0:05:46.6 FJ: Well, I didn't know that.
 
0:05:48.2 AS: Yeah, so I guess he did, and it says, "In 1972, he signed a congressional resolution giving dads their due, 58 years after President Woodrow Wilson made Mother's Day a holiday." So he had to wait a little bit for you.
 
0:06:05.4 FJ: Oh yeah.
 
0:06:05.4 AS: What's the most gifted present that fathers receive on their special day? 
 
0:06:09.4 FJ: I think young fathers, probably something that a child has made for 'em. Drawing or painting, and I always have thought things made are the best presents.
 
0:06:24.0 AS: Aww, I agree, I agree so much. They're so precious those. And you're right, really answer the number one thing is cards and no doubt made from the little ones, if you are looking to gifts that are purchased, apparently neckties are the number one Father's Day gift, although, how many ties can one possibly have? 
 
0:06:46.0 FJ: I don't know, so.
 
0:06:47.4 AS: You've just got one white collar and that does it for you.
 
0:06:50.9 FJ: Right. That's it.
 
0:06:53.1 AS: Okay, I hope this isn't too tricky, but what Hamlet-adapted Disney movie is about a fatherly figure and his lion cub? 
 
0:07:01.3 FJ: I have no idea.
 
0:07:02.7 AS: If I said Hakuna Matata, would you know what I was talking about? 
 
0:07:05.7 FJ: No.
 
0:07:08.8 AS: [chuckle] The Lion King. Have you ever seen it? 
 
0:07:08.9 FJ: No.
 
0:07:11.1 AS: Oh you missed... Oh, that's a good one. You should see that. [chuckle] You should see it.
 
0:07:13.4 FJ: I will, but I usually... I love romantic comedies.
 
0:07:18.8 AS: No way.
 
0:07:20.4 FJ: So I watch a lot of them.
 
0:07:24.0 AS: What's your favorite? 
 
0:07:26.4 FJ: I think I loved Sleepless in Seattle. You know that one? 
 
0:07:28.7 AS: Yes, for sure.
 
0:07:29.5 FJ: You've Got Mail. For some reason, I just love... I like Hallmark movies too, which is ridiculous, but I could write one because it's a couple who knew each other when they were younger, they went away in life, and then they come back together, at five to the ending hour, they kiss for the first time.
 
0:07:55.0 AS: You could write one. [chuckle] But they are a guilty pleasure, I think.
 
0:08:00.7 FJ: Yeah, they are, so I don't really... That Disney question really stumps me all the time.
 
0:08:09.9 AS: Okay, well, well, this is even more priceless that you like Hallmark over Disney. I love...
 
0:08:12.8 FJ: It's hokey, I know.
 
0:08:17.7 AS: I love it. You've Got Mail is a remake of The Shop Around the Corner. Have you ever seen that? From... I think that was way back, it was like Jimmy Stewart. I love that story.
 
0:08:25.4 FJ: Yeah, you too.
 
0:08:28.3 AS: That was the one my mom and I liked to watch growing up. I think it's been probably remade a few times, but You've Got Mail is definitely a modern interpretation, certainly an enjoyable one. And all those Meg Ryan movies are, right? 
 
0:08:37.6 FJ: Right, yeah, I like her a lot.
 
0:08:39.9 AS: Yeah, me too. Okay, and then turning slightly from fathers to their children, or one baby specifically, earlier this month, the original Gerber Baby from 1928 passed away. Her name was Ann Turner Cook, and she was 95. And a little birdie told me you might have a special connection to a more current Gerber Baby. Is that true? 
 
0:09:01.4 FJ: Yes, Gerber Baby of 2020 is my great niece. So, my niece adopted this child, Magnolia. The story behind it is really beautiful when the birth mother and the father felt like they could not support this child, so they put her up for adoption, and my niece and her husband were selected. She's a really cute baby. So when she was about one, a friend of my niece said, "Why don't you enter her in the Gerber Baby contest?" And she said, "I didn't even know about that." So, she did. And there were like 250,000 applicants for the Gerber Baby of that year.
 
0:09:43.4 AS: My gosh.
 
0:09:45.7 FJ: And so then they got this message that they were one of three finalists, and then that they would be on the Today Show, this was during COVID, so they were in California where they live, and the show was going on, and then they said, "We did tell you that you're one of three finalists, but what we wanted to tell you today, you are it." Magnolia was the first adopted child ever to be the Gerber Baby, and so she's really precious and she has a great personality, and she's inspired my niece to be concerned about books in the school where her older daughter goes, and there weren't many books at all for showing black children, so she started donating books. So, that's kind of a wonderful story.
 
0:10:39.0 AS: Thank you for sharing that. I've seen her picture, Magnolia's picture, and she's so sweet. Oh my goodness, and such a bright spot for 2020, for that year of such deep isolation and COVID. So, what a happy silver lining there. So wonderful. Tell me about lacrosse.
 
0:11:04.5 FJ: Okay.
 
0:11:04.9 AS: How much do you love lacrosse? What is your role in lacrosse at Notre Dame? 
 
0:11:08.1 FJ: It all began in Ireland about five years ago. I was on a trip, 9-day immersion into Ireland, with a group of Notre Dame students, and on this trip were eight members of the Notre Dame Women's Lacrosse team, and so they took a liking to me, and so they started saying, "We need a chaplain, we want you." And I said, "Well, that's up to your coach, it's not up to me." And so the eight of them started talking to the coach and said, "We found a chaplain for us," and so the coach has always been cautious about who... It had to be the right person before she would take anyone on. And so she learned a lot about me during the first semester, and in lacrosse seasons in the spring. So she sent me an invitation to be on the sideline...
 
0:12:04.8 AS: As an interim? 
 
0:12:07.5 FJ: As a friend of the lacrosse team. So I did, I went to three or four games. And then the next year, she wrote me and she said, "I'd like to formalize our relationship, and I'd like you to be our chaplain." And I said yes to that.
 
0:12:24.9 AS: Yay! 
 
0:12:26.6 FJ: I didn't know much about lacrosse, and especially women's lacrosse. My family is really... I have a nephew who coaches, and then I have a great nephew who plays on the Notre Dame team now. So lacrosse, I'm familiar with it, but I didn't understand all the things about it. So then the coach announced to the team and they were all ecstatic, so I needed to go to practice to learn about it. I thought, I don't know much about it, but I've learned so much about it and I just really, really love it. It's fast, it's just so amazing. And the women on the team are wonderful, and we do a bake-off...
 
0:13:14.3 AS: What does that mean? 
 
0:13:15.4 FJ: They divide up and then we did baking, and then they made me be the judge. And the first time, I said, "Well, it's a tie," they said, "No, it can't be a tie. Someone has to win. We're competitive."
 
0:13:32.0 AS: They play collegiate sport. [laughter]
 
0:13:35.0 FJ: And then... So we... I also take them to Rocco's you know we have masses, and then there's a group that goes to the Grotto before every home game, and I go with them and so... And they're just a really special group of people, there's 36 of them, and I get to know them all, I know all their names and everything about them and...
 
0:14:01.4 AS: I see you're still taking that Father Hesburgh's advice? 
 
0:14:03.9 FJ: Still doing that [chuckle] I keep on doing it.
 
0:14:09.0 AS: It's really good advice. Tell me a couple of things. What's your favorite thing about lacrosse? You didn't know anything about it at the beginning, you were just a nice person on a trip, and now you love it, what's your favorite thing? 
 
0:14:18.7 FJ: The speed and the excitement of it, it's just... It's so fast. It can change on a dime. And they're very athletic, and I especially love the people.
 
0:14:32.3 AS: That's nice, I think I would be remiss if I don't ask a slightly different question since you have such great popularity with A Cup of Joe, do you yourself like coffee? 
 
0:14:44.1 FJ: I love it. [laughter]
 
0:14:45.7 AS: Okay, good. Do you have a favorite kind? 
 
0:14:48.9 FJ: Well, if I use the curing in our office, I drink Italian roast. If I go to Starbucks, I'll get a tall latte... I drink two cups a day, two in the morning, and that's it for the day, I like to drink it with people [chuckle] It's a way to get to know students. Before COVID, in the Starbucks on campus, you could go in there, everybody would be in a line of a couple of lanes. I decided to buy a drink for the person behind me in line.
 
0:15:27.7 AS: Oh, that's so nice.
 
0:15:30.1 FJ: And so people were shocked. And they'd say, "You don't have to do that." I said, "No, I do, I want to." And I love, I meet with people who are thinking about ACE and go over there to Starbucks and meet with them and talk about ACE and... So it's sort of important from the perspective of coming together with people.
 
0:15:53.2 AS: It's welcoming to have that warm beverage and have a nice conversation around that. I think that that's very true. Yeah, well, I know so many people do enjoy this series... How did the series A Cup of Joe come about? Was it 'cause you always did drink coffee? 
 
0:16:05.8 FJ: No, it came about because there was a teacher in ACE and then who came to work on our staff by the name Emily Lazar. She'd take out her phone, she would post it so it started really on her own. And Emily Lazar is a spontaneous, loving, beautiful person. And just full of joy.
 
0:16:29.1 AS: Yes.
 
0:16:29.3 FJ: And so that's how it started. And there's a sycamore tree by the Grotto, have you ever noted at where people climb in and sit [0:16:38.4] ____. Emily told someone that we were gonna do it from there...
 
0:16:45.0 AS: Oh yeah.
 
0:16:45.0 FJ: And we were told in no uncertain terms, "No, you won't," [laughter] because they were concerned about me falling out of the tree.
 
0:16:54.3 AS: Okay, fair enough.
 
0:16:56.1 FJ: That was a reason. And then after Emily left, then Mary Pickens became the person with me, and then when she left...
 
0:17:07.8 AS: So sweet.
 
0:17:07.9 FJ: Bridget McDermott so that's how it proceeded. So...
 
0:17:13.3 AS: I love it.
 
0:17:13.9 FJ: And it's just so brief, two or three minutes and just kind of giving some sort of wisdom or talking about something on our minds, and the funny thing is Tim Will's mother is a big fan and so... She would give me a... She sent a cup, it says Johnstown PA on the cup. So that's where she lives. So we had a shout out to her and I used her cup.
 
0:17:43.3 AS: I love it [chuckle] Product placement.
 
0:17:45.9 FJ: Right. [laughter]
 
0:17:48.0 AS: Or city placement I suppose, that could be a really nice tradition, actually, mugs from all over the country and the world.
 
0:17:53.5 FJ: Yeah so Martha made a rack that I have in my office on the wall, I got about a dozen cups.
 
0:18:01.9 AS: Okay, I think I know. I'm gonna have to pick a really good one and send it to you.
 
0:18:06.5 FJ: Okay. [chuckle]
 
0:18:07.9 AS: And then we'll meet by the sycamore tree and I'll give you a boost.
 
0:18:10.5 FJ: Okay. [laughter]
 
0:18:12.7 AS: Well, thank you very much for the series, and apparently we all... And thank you also to Emily and to Mary and to Bridget for continuing it, and Tim and his mom.
 
0:18:24.0 FJ: Right here... [laughter]
 
0:18:24.3 AS: Number one fans. Okay, and I guess I'd be also remiss, at least in this ACE community, the other thing you're very famous for are your? 
 
0:18:34.3 FJ: Cookies.
 
0:18:37.6 AS: Cookies, exactly. [laughter] Your cookies, yes. Before I even started, I heard about your cookies and so they have lived up to the hype. They are delicious, do you have some secret recipes? Or...
 
0:18:48.0 FJ: Well, it all started in Ryan Hall, where I live. But I had started it there because a male living in a women's hall, I felt I wanted to give the women their space, but I also wanted to meet them, and so I was always thinking about how can I bring people to meet me. Our hall was opened in 2009, and someone that first year came in to meet me and she asked me if I knew how to bake, and I said, I don't and then she said, "Can I teach you?" And I said, 'Yes, and let's do it every Tuesday." And then when I started in ACE, people came to bake and they get to meet each other from different cohorts, and I feel like it's more than cookies because whether in Ryan Hall or in ACE it's bringing people together. And then the large group of people who share in the eating of them, like for example, this past Monday, we made probably 30 dozen cookies.
 
0:19:56.5 AS: 30 dozen.
 
0:19:57.7 FJ: You know how many... We had three cookies left out of... [laughter] So...
 
0:20:04.2 AS: Oh my God.
 
0:20:04.4 FJ: And so people just... They say it's a stress reliever, it just really helps them, and we talk about... Well, they're really good because we make them with love as an extra ingredient over the years in Ryan Hall, three different couples have met and are now husband and wife.
 
0:20:25.1 AS: What? 
 
0:20:26.6 FJ: They met, because the guys come too, and so it's kind of really interesting, forms relationships. That happens every Tuesday, during the school year, and then every Monday in the summer.
 
0:20:43.5 AS: So wait. Let me get this straight, you have a match making business on the side? 
 
0:20:47.3 FJ: I guess that can happen, but I call it building community, and it so happens some people get married.
 
0:20:58.5 AS: Tomato tomato.
 
0:20:58.6 FJ: Right? 
 
0:21:02.2 AS: Oh my gosh, that's wonderful. But you're right, I know people can't see you, but your smile is contagious and you are such a welcoming, warm person, it is no surprise that you have a coffee video series, welcoming people, a cookies tradition welcoming people. Do you feel like you've always had this sort of skill of bringing people together? 
 
0:21:24.8 FJ: I can remember when I was younger, I always thought about other people and on one occasion... I have three sisters, and so we had gone to a movie and we arrived about 10 minutes late or so. So, we missed the beginning of the movie, so at the end of the movie, I said, "Well, we have to go." And my oldest sister said to me, "No, we didn't see the beginning, so we gotta stay," and I said, "Look at all the people waiting for seats, we gotta... We gotta go." And they were so mad at me, I forced them to leave because... So, they missed the beginning of the movie, but that was like... I was like about 11 years old in that experience... So, I think that I was always aware of that. And my parents, who were the most hospitable people, we had cousins who lived in the East and came to go to college and they would live with us, and there was even one time a Holy Cross priest, his friend got a job in Detroit after he graduated from Notre Dame and had no place to live. And so I said, "Well, I'll talk to my parents. Maybe he can stay with them until he gets his feet on the ground." And so after six months, my priest friend called them up and said, "Are you still living with the Careys?" "Oh yeah, they're real nice. They like me." He said, "I think it's time for you to... " So that's where I get it from, I think, that's how they were. They just always were open to welcoming people and...
 
0:23:12.1 AS: That sounds so nice. Oh my gosh. I'm not surprised that you're similar to them. For those who don't know, tell me, where did you grow up? 
 
0:23:22.7 FJ: I grew up in Detroit, Michigan. I was born in New York, actually in Jackson Heights, New York, which is in the borough of Queens.
 
0:23:36.1 AS: Queens, yeah.
 
0:23:36.5 FJ: Sometimes my sisters... After there was a show, King of Queens, it was a comedy. My sister said I was the original King of Queens because I was the only boy and got treated like a king.
 
0:23:52.5 AS: Oh my gosh, alright. I won't ever watch that show the same again, I'll always be picturing you. Yeah, that's what I was just saying, you do think of others, you thought of everyone in the movie theater and your sisters might be like, "We were the only three he wasn't thinking about. We wanted to see the beginning."
 
0:24:04.0 FJ: They might have thought that.
 
0:24:04.8 AS: What movie was it? I wonder.
 
0:24:08.3 FJ: Oh, I have no idea. I can't remember.
 
0:24:11.0 AS: Also were you late 'cause they were just getting ready and stuff? Because it sounds like my family, I'm one of five, but one boy, also, and so no doubt us girls always made him late for everything as we tried to curl our hair or do whatever else.
 
0:24:25.4 FJ: My father was the most patient person, and so when we would be going to Mass on Sundays as a family, he'd pull the car out of the garage and be sitting in the driveway, I'd come in and then my sisters and my mother would come one by one, and we just sort of sat there and waited, and that might be why I'm always early for everything I do, but I do have to... My sisters taught me a lot about how to treat women, and thus like I've lived with college women for 17 years now. I was in Dillon for 20 with men. So, I've had a lot of time living with young people, and the blessing of my life is seeing daughters of men who were in Dillon when I was rector.
 
0:25:28.9 AS: Oh yes, of course.
 
0:25:29.9 FJ: Yeah. I don't tell them their father's shenanigans or anything.
 
0:25:34.6 AS: That's very kind of you, keep that with you.
 
0:25:37.0 FJ: Well, I think their father's all grown into a mature, great, man.
 
0:25:40.7 AS: You set them on the right track.
 
0:25:42.2 FJ: Right.
 
0:25:44.0 AS: Can you talk a little bit about what you felt was your calling early on? You're obviously a priest for how many... 52? 
 
0:25:51.2 FJ: 52 years.
 
0:25:55.0 AS: Okay, great. Can you kinda hearken back, have you reflected on that yourself? 
 
0:25:56.8 FJ: I reflect on that question in two ways, when people ask me, when did you decide to be a priest? The most immediate way is this morning when I woke up, I said, "I wanna be a good priest today," that's how I begin every day, and ask God to help me to do that. My vocation story though, began... I went to Jesuit High School in Detroit. Some of the Jesuits asked me if I ever thought of being a priest and I said, "Sort of." And they said "Well, would you like to learn more about the Jesuits?" And I said, "Well, I actually, I'd rather go to Notre Dame." I always wanted to come to Notre Dame because my father had gone here. One of his best friends became a Holy Cross priest, Father Jerry Wilson, who served at Notre Dame with Father Ted. He was Vice President for Business Affairs for 25 years, and so he was my father's close friend. And would come and visit us, and I always thought, if I were to be a priest, I would be a Holy Cross priest, and so I went through Notre Dame as an accounting major, but about in the middle of my junior year, I began to think. First of all, I didn't like accounting. Secondly, maybe God is calling me to be a priest. And so, I would meet up with Father Wilson and talk about it and everything, and then entered the seminary after I graduated, it was always...
 
0:27:27.4 FJ: My idea was that I wanted to work with young adults. Well, we didn't get any education courses, ACE didn't exist then. And so I was sent to Notre Dame High School in Niles, Illinois, where I began teaching. So, it was a thought of being able to share God's love with people. The foundation of my vocation call was from the time in the seminary to today, my favorite gospel passage is Jesus washing the feet of the disciples, and that's motivated me. What Jesus teaches us there is that we are to love one another, living my vocation as a Holy Cross priest is to love every person. I've always felt that God was calling me to that, and I've had people say, obviously, my love for the sacrament of marriage, I see the importance of that as a sacrament, but I think that some people are called to love everyone they meet, and that's been what my life has been devoted to. So, sometimes people will say, they think I'm their best friend, and other people say, "He's my best friend," but I try to focus directly on whatever person I'm with and listen to them. Serving others in the imitation of Jesus, is to listen and to affirm and just help people along the way, to walk with them. My vocation is about three critical questions, finding out who the other person is, where are they going, and how can I assist them.
 
0:29:25.1 AS: Wow. Such a caring and selfless way to live. Do you see it that way? 
 
0:29:31.6 FJ: I don't see it, I just see it, that's what God wants me to do, so I just go do it. But there's nothing better in my life than getting back to pizza. Rocco's is my favorite pizza place in town, and I love to bring students there, I just think there's something special about sitting with a group of people around a table and sharing a meal, and it's so Eucharistic-like, those are the things that makes me the happiest. Seeing people grow and become the people God is calling them to be, and that's what I really hope for, and when I said that I always felt God called me to work with young adults, and they are mainly people from 18 on. I'm willing to listen to them no matter what, and I try not to judge anyone, and...
 
0:30:36.7 AS: That's critical.
 
0:30:39.0 FJ: Kind of an interesting story connected with this is that before I was in ACE, I was working in campus ministry and I was asked to help out on a retreat for GLBT students, I thought Father Warner and I were doing it, but we were having a meeting and he wasn't taking any notes when we're gonna do this, and I came to the realization I'm doing it.
 
0:31:04.4 AS: Okay. Surprise.
 
0:31:05.1 FJ: Surprise, you're in. And so, before the first retreat, I was talking to this nun who worked at Notre Dame who had been involved with it, and I said, "I'm really nervous about this. I just don't know." And she said to me is, "All you have to do is love these kids. Just love them, and that's what they need." And so that's how I go about trying to fulfill this vocation.
 
0:31:34.0 AS: That was very wise on her part and very central to you is people do... They wanna be heard, they wanna be listened to. Everybody has a story and everybody wants to feel loved. I feel like those are universals, and the fact that you are willing to walk that path with these people at such a critical time in their lives that you were able to sort of maybe in some ways, give them clarity or strength. I think a lot of people maybe don't like working with people in that age range. What do you particularly find life-giving about it? 
 
0:32:09.0 FJ: Well, that's a really good question. What I find life-giving is that, creating trust, in order to do that, you have to be willing too. Some come in with, "Here's what I think you should do." It's really, really opening yourself to being willing to hear anything and to not judge. I think judgment drives young people away. Being able to also realize that no one changes on the spot, people change because they're listened to. Talk about how you celebrated your birthday here. How do you celebrate Christmas? I like to ask those types of questions sometimes when gathering a group together and getting them to talk and being willing to accept the fact that people have different experiences, like of Notre Dame or of ACE, of teaching. Jesus usually answered a question by asking a question. "Who do you say I am?" He asked his disciples and great teachings came through that way. And so to be Christ-like means that you just cannot judge. You have to help the person articulate who they are and what's the meaning in their lives. And if they've been hurt, they will eventually tell you.
 
0:33:46.8 AS: Yeah.
 
0:33:49.5 FJ: And a great role model for me has been Father Hesburgh. And when I first started working at Notre Dame in 1977, he spoke to all of us who were working in the halls. And he said, "If you don't know the name and things about the people in your hall, you're not doing your job," and I believe that. I think people want... They wanna be known. And it's critical nowadays because they're so anonymous and so and especially since COVID, people have been so isolated and they need to tell their stories. And this, I think, is the most critical thing that I can think about. How can I be that person for them? Helping them to know what their gifts are, their talents. And you talk to ACE teachers and try to tell them your commitment to them and teaching them every day you're showing up. You may be the most consistent, loving adult in their life, and so you gotta show up.
 
0:35:04.7 AS: You gotta show up. I think what you do for the ACE community is just absolutely invaluable. So, I do want to spend some time with that, but maybe get our listeners, maybe give us a little bit of a bridge.
 
0:35:16.3 FJ: So I was ordained in April of 1969. My first assignment was to go to Notre Dame High School in Niles, Illinois, and I taught there for six years. And then they asked me to come back to Notre Dame and be Director of Vocations, which I never thought I would do. It was a job that it wasn't one that people were lining up to get. So I did that for four years and then started as Assistant Rector in Dillon, and then I began working in Financial Aid Office. I did that for 10 years while also being in Dillon, and so I had two full time jobs.
 
0:35:56.2 AS: See? You used the accounting degree? 
 
0:35:58.9 FJ: No, I just gave money away. That was my job.
 
[laughter]
 
0:36:05.2 AS: I like that even better.
 
0:36:05.3 FJ: So that was really special. And then I was tired, so I just went to being a rector for a while. I loved that, the ministry of it was beautiful. Even though an all-male dorm, 18 to 22 year old people, you experience everything under the sun. So those were the years of Dillon Hall. Those were really special. Then I went off to Saint Mary's and enjoyed that, but I missed living in a hall. And so then I came back to Notre Dame and had a joint appointment in campus ministry and the career center. So I've been all over the ballpark and doing things at Notre Dame.
 
0:36:49.5 AS: Yeah.
 
0:36:51.7 FJ: It's tough to be in two places. So, I chose just to go with campus ministry and I did a lot of retreats. In the meantime, I was helping to interview for ACE. I wasn't working for ACE yet, but I did help on interviews and also going on the December retreat with ACE because I was asked to go. And then one year I was there and I was asked, "Would you like to come work with us?" Then I said to myself, they do retreats, which I love doing, and they're working with young adults and helping them grow in their faith and doing a great service for the church. So I said, "Yes, I'll ask my superiors if I can do it in the community." And they said, "I could do anything I wanted." So.
 
0:37:38.3 AS: Nice.
 
0:37:39.8 FJ: So, here I am at ACE. It's just so special. And I love going to visit schools. I see our people, ACE teachers. I'm in awe of them. It's beautiful.
 
0:37:54.3 AS: You do work with them on a different level. What are you seeing? What do you want them to know about themselves and what they have dedicated themselves to doing? 
 
0:38:04.4 FJ: They're talented and they're gifted. They don't believe in themselves enough. They think they have to be perfect and they need to know that everyone can mess up. It's not the end of the world for some kid who are gonna more remember how you treated them than whether you knew north from south. I want them to see how beautiful they are in the eyes of God.
 
0:38:26.0 AS: Is there a spirituality element that maybe you don't sort of say explicitly or maybe you do, but that you would like to impart on the students that you meet, the people that you meet? 
 
0:38:37.5 FJ: Well, I'm a great follower of Saint Ignatius because I not only went to a Jesuit high school, I grew up in a Jesuit parish. When I was in maybe sixth grade, I was deathly afraid of going to confession. For some reason, my mother found out I didn't go. You know, we would go every month. And I found out a way to get from the side of the church where the kids who hadn't been... You went to confession, then you went to another part of the church. I could make it there without going through the confessional. And so my mother found that out. Maybe I told her I don't go to confession. And so then she talked to this old priest in our parish and he said, "We would meet in the sacristy." So, well before Vatican II, I was going to confession face to face and... But the Jesuit, Ignatius taught about finding God in all things. And that's what I try to impart. Where was God in this? 
 
0:39:47.0 AS: May I ask for some of the people who are younger, do they find it harder to see? And if so, how do you help them see where God is in that? 
 
0:39:54.9 FJ: Well, I think it is hard for a lot of people to see it, so I think that we need to ask questions. Reading something and/or sharing an experience, where did you find God in that? If someone were to ask me, where did you find God in what we've done in the last couple of hours, I would say, I found it in your loving, kind, sharing and asking me about myself and having me be able to reflect on things that are beautiful in my life that maybe I don't always appreciate. And so that's one of the things I would take away from this. And so like I could share this experience with someone else, so I appreciate your time that you've taken with me.
 
0:40:46.4 AS: What a kind compliment. See, now there it is, there's all that love that you're talking about, it's just sort of impossible for it not to grow when you view the world the way that you do and you're an inspiration. You really are. I hope you know that.
 
0:41:02.0 FJ: Thank you.
 
0:41:03.2 AS: Oh my gosh, thank you, honestly. And I would end right there, but I always kind of ask too... I think you're a very hopeful person, but are you hopeful? 
 
0:41:16.5 FJ: I'm kind of worried about the church and the division in the church, the division in the country. And I find some great sadness in the fact that we're so divided, but I think that that doesn't mean we quit, but that it means that we have to spread the message of love more.
 
0:41:38.6 AS: I think that is true, when people maybe are sad or are tired or feel defeated, my guess is you feel that way too sometimes? 
 
0:41:49.3 FJ: Mm-hmm.
 
0:41:49.3 AS: How do you renew yourself? How can you help them renew themselves? 
 
0:41:52.8 FJ: One of the ways that I renew myself is that, and I tell this to ACE teachers too and college students that I can look back on things and see a difference, or people will tell me stories about myself that I don't remember. In like the last fall, I ran into some guys who had lived in Dillon, 25 years, 30 years ago or something, and they said, "You know, we used to count the number of times you spoke in a homily at mass on Sundays, you always... We counted how many times you would say love or Jesus, and we thought it was somewhat remarkable, and now we find, we don't hear that in homilies where we live, but what you used to say comes back to us." So that was a great way of looking at it, you know, reminding people, people remembering things where they were touched and reminding them to explore that, so.
 
0:43:00.0 AS: And you're right, those are the moments that resonate.
 
0:43:03.9 FJ: And I look upon the students at Notre Dame and the students in ACE from other schools who come to join us, the lacrosse women, the women in Ryan, all these people that I get to know are precious and I love them. It's all about love for me. We are men and women with hope to bring. That's one of our foundations of our community life, we have to remember that. We can't get into being cynical, or we have to move away from that and bring the hope, share the hope, listen for the hope, point it out, like John the Baptist recognized Jesus. There he is, he's the one. And so, it takes us doing that to realize we need to be renewed in hope to be able to help find hope.
 
0:44:01.6 AS: Very true. Very true and you might be a walking symbol of hope for people, so please know how wonderful it is to work with you and how much we appreciate you spending this time with us and how much we are so grateful for all you do for not just the men and women of ACE, but the university itself and way beyond its borders. So you're marrying more people this weekend, and you continue to spread joy through your coffee, through cooking, through just talking and just seeing people and being present with them, so thank you so much. I so enjoyed this conversation.
 
0:44:35.2 FJ: Okay, thank you for thinking of me.
 
0:44:37.7 AS: Thank you so, so much.
 
0:44:38.5 FJ: Have a good day. Bye.
 
0:44:43.2 AS: And thank you all for joining us for Think. Pair. Share. If you enjoyed this episode, head on over to Apple Podcasts to subscribe, rate and leave a review, it's very much appreciated. Check out our website at iei.nd.edu/media for this and other goodies. Thanks for listening and for now, off we go.
 
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